Talk:Umoria

Can this be libre?
The game seems to be based LOTR, a non-free copyrighted content. If that is so, it can't really be libre. Should this be removed? --Drummyfish (talk) 01:00, 16 August 2020 (CEST)
 * While LOTR was a strong influence on Moria, as it was on practically all fantasy works from the 80s, the game doesn't make any direct reference to the plot and characters of LOTR, other than being set in a place called "Moria" and featuring a Balrog. For the latter, balrogs as creatures have been featured in other games/fantasy settings as well, such as Maple Story, for instance, and the name has been used elsewhere as well, notably in Street Fighter. The names used in Umoria are a minor aspect of the game, and no mention is made that the game is set in Middle Earth or has anything to do with LOTR. I recall that the proper name for Moria in LOTR was Khazad-dum, and that "Moria" was a name given to it by outsiders. According to Wikipedia the name "Moria" means "the black chasm," so it is reasonable to assume the "Moria" in Umoria (which is a huge deep dark cave filled with monsters) is just named that because it is a dangerous dungeon.
 * This is one of the most important roguelike games ever created, being a direct ancestor of many of the most popular RLs of all time, and its codebase is totally free under the GNU GPL as indicated in the references in the article. The fact that a few names are based on a copyrighted work shouldn't prevent its inclusion in this wiki. No legal action has ever been brought against Moria in any of its incarnations, and it has existed for nearly 40 years. This doesn't seem to be any more of a copyright issue than, say, Secret Maryo Chronicles, or the quotes from copyrighted works in Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup. Magellan (talk) 09:52, 16 August 2020 (CEST)
 * I'm not a lawyer but I think the relevant legal concept here is 'fair use'. Umoria is mostly a non-profit (while you can also sell it, most people don't) educational (free source code, collaborative efforts) project. It contains large amounts of original content and is not a book but a game. It only includes small portions of any copyrighted things (moria, balrog) and those are relatively unimportant in the original work. It also cannot at all replace the original, nobody would dream of substituting the classic book with this indie game. I think Umoria is free and so should remain here. --GNUbie (talk) 11:38, 16 August 2020 (CEST)
 * OK, you convinced me the game can stay (even though personally I'll avoid this game because of the legal doubt). Just a few notes: The name "Moria" means "the black chasm", but in a language Tolkien invented for LOTR, which would actually point to the game being in the same (copyrighted) universe, but let's let this pass. You also can't argue with fair use for free works, fair use exists so that you can use proprietary works under certain circumstances; free (as in freedom) works have to allow any use, even "unfair" one. --Drummyfish (talk) 21:49, 16 June 2021 (CEST)
 * I wouldn't worry too much if I were you. "Moria" is a pretty common variant for misspelling "Moriah", a biblical place name, or transcribing it into other languages. It's a place in Greece, a place in South Africa, etc. Of course here it is in reference to Tokien, but making references to other works is not illegal per se (in most countries) and indeed that's what a large portion of video game Easter eggs are about. "Balrogs" are more questionable on the basis that the Tolkien estate has previously sued people over fictional creatures including balrogs. But if we are to avoid the game over that concern then by extension we should also avoid all games containing orcs. FacelessLinuxUser (talk) 06:31, 18 June 2021 (CEST)